I have been wanting to write about college for quite some time. Not about my own college experience, but whether it is even worth it to send our kids to college these days. It’s a pretty loaded question and a debate that obviously needs to be covered in several posts. Hence, the new college series.
First, I want to start by excerpting from an insightful college essay selected by the NYTimes to be printed in its Your Money column. The student, Julian Cranberg, nailed it with the following thoughts:
“The combined postage charge of everything I have received from various colleges must be above $200. Small postcards and envelopes add up fast, especially considering the colossal pool of potential applicants to which they are being sent. Although vastly aiding the United States Postal Service in its time of need, it is nauseating to imagine the volume of money spent on this endeavor. Why, in an era of record-high student loan debt and unemployment, are colleges not reallocating these ludicrous funds to aid their own students instead of extending their arms far and wide to students they have never met?” – Julian’s full essay including those of the other three selected can be found here.
I couldn’t agree more. Schools that need to resort to advertising have no place educating our future leaders. The application hierarchy should look like this:
1) Prestigious school whether it’s private or public (i.e., Harvard or UC Berkeley)
2) State school (i.e., University of California System)
3) State school (i.e., Cal State System)
4) Community college, then transfer to any of the above
This hierarchy is not the end all, be all. After prospective students get acceptances, then expenses and financial aid need to be taken into account before a final decision can be made. But notice that nowhere in my hierarchy do you see a small private college. Even if you think you have your heart set on some quaint, tree-lined campus, I do not see the value in applying to a low-ranked, cost prohibitive, private school.
Where did you go to college and do you think it was worth the money? If your children are in high school, how are you advising them when it comes to college?
Janine Huldie
Catherine, I couldn’t have said it better if I tried and my husband and I both torn what to tell our kids as they grow up about applying to colleges, because right now between the two of us, we are still paying off massive college debt (seriously enough for a down payment for a house and then some). Most of it is my husband’s, but even though mine is minimal, still annoys me to no end to pay these loans off monthly. I curse many times when I submit the payment online. So, with you on this and then some, believe me!!
Catherine
Janine, you are not alone. I am totally with you and please stay tuned for additional posts, as I will be making the case to NOT go to college. This is coming from someone who is a firm believer in education.
Dana
I am really interested in seeing where you are going with this, Catherine. My husband and I went to a private college, which would cost almost $350k for our daughter to attend for four years (starting in 2016). We will probably start looking at schools casually this year (10th grade), but I don’t love our state schools options. I will stay tuned!
Catherine
I should note that I think private schools are fine if there is a high ROI involved which isn’t difficult to ascertain. All schools (both undergraduate and graduate) should indicate what their job placement rates are after graduation and that is a key indicator of the school’s network and career placement office. If the job placement rate is low, then there isn’t much value/return and students might as well go to a cheaper school. Otherwise the debt isn’t worth it.
Mo at Mocadeaux
Catherine, I couldn’t agree with you more. When my children were applying to colleges they worked very hard and set their sights high. Fortunately my husband and I were able to provide for their college education. Our investment and their hard work paid off. I know we are very blessed to be in this position while many families are not.
I have a friend, a brilliant entrepreneur, who years ago said that brick and mortar universities would become obsolete in the not too distant future, that they are just too expensive to maintain. At the time I thought he was crazy but with schools costing so much more and financial aid becoming so hard to come by, maybe the small private schools will go out of business and be replaced by online universities.
Catherine
Yes! You totally get me. What is the point of spending hundreds of thousands of dollars for an education that you can get online for free! Seriously, I will be writing more on this later.
Michelle
This is something we are just starting to look at. It’s stressful. My son will be a junior this year and he prefers a smaller atmosphere. Right now he’s attending a very small private school, in part because he has been turned off by the fact that in the past he has had teachers that didn’t know his name. I think he always kind of felt like he got lost in the crowd. That said, the costs of a small private college make me nervous. He does have a specialized degree he wants to pursue, so we’ll see where that takes us.
Catherine
Michelle, I would really be interested in this journey as you parent your child toward post-high school graduation. I do hope you blog about it. I went to a small private high school with 100 people in our graduating class. Then I went to UC Berkeley which had 20,000 undergraduate students. Then I went to a very expensive MBA program so I feel very qualified to write about this given I have done it all. More soon!
Joi
My Friend and I discuss this often. It’s not enough to just go to college. You have brought up some Interesting arguments. I’ll look forward to this series!
Catherine
Joi, you would be surprised. It is enough now to only finish high school. Look at Gates, Jobs, Zuckerberg. Lots more on this very soon.
thedoseofreality
Definitely interested to see where you are headed with this series. I think college is not an option…meaning, my kids are going. Period. But, I wonder if it is easier for me to say that because my parents paid for my education. Either way, I am 100% pro-college. :)-Ashley
Catherine
Ashley, I look forward to making you change your mind! Maybe you will not change your mind, but possibly pause for a second. That will be my goal 🙂
Kate
I was so confused about what I wanted when I started college. I ended up starting at a private college then a tier 3 state school then a tier 2 state school (University of Florida). I wish I had saved money and gone the route of two years at a community college before graduating somewhere else. Live and learn!
Catherine
Kate, at least you will be qualified to direct your children when they are trying to decide what to do about college.
Yvonne Chase
I don’t have kids but if I did, they would be going to college around the corner meaning, I would not pay one dime more than I needed to pay for them to get an education.
To me, it doesn’t matter where you attend college. It matters what you do once you graduate. In addition, I’d be teaching my kid entrepreneurship. He or she would be running a lemonade stand, pushing a paper route, cutting hair, braiding hair, applying makeup, buying groceries for the elderly and shut-in etc or doing some sort of business as soon as they had an ounce of common sense.
This way the thought process of going to college and coming out to get a high paying job is gone before they even start. They would’ve already learned other ways to make money before getting a degree and can now look to college for the other things it offers.
I do not believe in sending kids away to an expensive school. Absolutely not!
Catherine
Yvonne, seriously, are you my doppelganger? My husband and I have this saying, “Make more money!”
Bored? “Make more money!”
Extra time on your hands? “Make more money!”
It is going to be ingrained in my kid as soon as they are of working age. What is it? 14 years? It teaches them responsibility and forces them to grow up instead of sitting on the couch and watching reality TV!!!
Savvy Working Gal
I went to a state school – here in Wisconsin the state schools are pretty decent – majored in business then went back to school after I graduated to take the accounting courses required for the CPA exam. I paid for this 100% on my own, except for some help from my company with the accounting courses. I could never do this now. The problem I see is with the students who like me obtain a degree when they aren’t sure what they want to do. When they finally figure it all out they can’t afford to go back to get the degree they now need.
There is a small very expensive private college in my neighborhood where several co-workers have sent their children. There is the criminal justice major who was on the 5 year plan that now works in IT. His girlfriend who majored in pre-med and now creates websites. The business major who works as a security guard because he’s decided he would rather be in law enforcement. The biology major who has been bartending for the past three years and she still doesn’t know what she wants to do. Then there is the communication/French major who hasn’t graduated yet. Can’t imagine what she’s going to do with that. She is also on the 5 year plan. And the freshman planning to attend a state school for recreational therapy – median annual wage is $40k. Doesn’t seem like all the money, time and work has been worth it.
Then there is my niece’s boyfriend. He knew from the get go he wanted to be a pharmacist. He found and was accepted in a pharmacy undergraduate program avoiding the expensive master’s program. By knowing what he wanted to do he saved time and money.
Catherine
Yes, this is part of the problem. Kids don’t know what they want to do which is totally fine and acceptable, but don’t be trying to figure it out on your parents’ retirement funds! And parents, please don’t enable these whims of your children by paying for education willy-nilly. LET’S ALL STOP AND THINK ABOUT THIS FIRST! That is the problem. It’s like money see, monkey do. Must go to college. Must send kids to college. Everyone else goes to college. Everyone else goes into debt. I should go into debt too. This is a problem people!
Andrea
I remember you mentioning wanting to publish a piece on college and its value. So glad you did because you have started something. I should slap myself for attending college not once, but twice, out of state!!!! I went to a private school for undergrad then another out-of-state college for grad school. I don’t feel it was worth it. I’ve already decided that if my daughter choosing not to attend college that is fine by me IF she has shown great interest in something particular and shown that she can be profitable doing that thing she loves. Catherine, did I ever tell you that I hate Sallie Mae? Did I?
Catherine
Andrea, I thought Aunt Sallie was your BFF! She can’t seem to leave you alone!
I am glad you are open-minded about your daughter and her future plans. There is time! That’s what’s great. I feel sorry, I truly do, for parents who are contending with kids going to college right now.
Yowsers, time to open up the floodgates of debt!
Tana Bevan
My daughter did the Community College/transfer to 4-year/get financial aid/resort to loans route. She’s had her Bachelor’s for a year.
Overall she says she’s doing much better than her friends/peers in that she has two jobs which pay over minimum wage (one of which is even related to her degree), she is able to live away from home, and without roommates.
My daughter is aware her chosen career path requires a PhD. When she tells me this is still the direction she wants for her life, I continue encouraging her … even as I see her struggle so hard to make ends meet, live independently, and pursue the career which she is passionate about.
Personally I’ve never been sold on the value of higher education for everyone. I believe, as with all things, it’s a good fit for some. Others are wired for trade schools, entrepreneurship, perhaps even the military.
With the internet, so much knowledge is available for those willing to look. Such as young Jack Andrake. By age 15 he’d discovered a promising early detection test for pancreatic cancer … much of his research coming from the internet. Here’s the TEDTalk link: http://www.ted.com/talks/jack_andraka_a_promising_test_for_pancreatic_cancer_from_a_teenager.html
Catherine
Tana, you are hitting the nail on the head! There is so much education on the internet (i.e., Tedx and Khan Academy) that’s free and so good that spending a lot of money and going into debt to educate yourself doesn’t even seem logical to me anymore! I am bookmarking your TedTalk to listen to!
Lynne Childress
I went to a state school, although while I was there, it became a Public Honors College. This was 20 years ago, and I don’t think that I could get it OR afford it today. I always thought my kids would go to college. He is only 1 now but I think that based on who he is when the time comes, we will discuss it. He has to do SOMETHING, and learn some sort of skill that maximizes his gifts. We will see how he gets to that.
Catherine
Hi Lynne, I think you are lucky because you do have time to think about it and see what happens because college is not the only option these days. It’s taken a while for people to see this as they’re used to doing what everyone else does, but you will see, I’m telling you, by the time your son goes, the landscape of education will have changed.
Mera Featherstory
Hi Catherine
Thanks for posting on my blog, I am loving this discussion. I have a deep love for education as well as a deep disdain for college propaganda. I went to a public state university against my own wishes. I was the kind of kid who learned for fun and beyond my “level” at a very early age. Before I graduated from high school I had a business plan and asked my parents to support me and give me the summer and 1st semester after I graduated to have success. My parents gave me that time, but didn’t support me or respect my decision, so I spent a lot of that time working on the requirements I needed to join college for the Winter/Spring semester.
I went to school and found it so boring I could barely make myself go to my classes. I thought college would be a challenge…intellectually. I eventually had a couple of really great professors not long before I dropped out. After I dropped out, I studied on my own(though I’d studied a little of it in high school and college) literacy studies, among other topics that were really important to me. I attended a Yoga Teacher training and holistic health studies course that was a fraction of the cost of my college education and taught me so much more.
I don’t think my 2.5 years of college was worth it at all. If I had known, I would have taken a few classes from the two great professors I had and learned the other things I really wanted to delve deeper into, while putting my start-up together and avoided student loans altogether. My parents paid a hefty fee, for their budgets, along with my loans and I still have loan debt to pay off.